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ideas for weapons/shields

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Nomaru
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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sat 9 May - 21:27

Fatal Scythe a boss, and I don't think we ever saw a laughing coffin user use a scythe.  Also, I don't really know how sword skills factor in here...  Plus, you have to take into consideration that we never saw 90% of the game.  Since Tonfa are risky weapons that would require a decent deal of IRL skill (dodging, spinning the tonfa, etc.) in order to use, it's conceivable that there are no tonfa players seen in the anime.  Just as how Klein is the only katana wielder we ever see, because that's such an annoying weapon to get a hold of.  And how Asuna is the only rapier wielder for the same reason.  If we really wanted to cover our bases, we could make Tonfa a sub-weapon of daggers or something, since the sub-weapons were the rarest weapons seen in the anime.  I agree with being really careful about not changing things stated in the anime, but adding new things on top of what's already there seems logical to me (as long as it makes sense that these things we add in aren't seen in the anime), just like how we add in floor designs to fill in the gaps of what they show us in the anime, or how we're adding the ability for red players to kill enough guards that they stop spawning at the gate, or how we just added that event board for players to advertise guild events.

If your problem w/ tonfa is that they were never shown in the anime, I think I gave good enough reasons to allow them to be included.  If it was for something else (you still think they're OP, or anything else), then please tell me about what it is so I can work with you and try and solve the problem.  Now, admittedly, part of the reason I want them in the game so bad is because I plan on using them, but I also believe that they fit well into SAO's world and work to better balance the strength-to-agility ratio that exists in the weapons shown in the show.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sat 9 May - 21:53

Well it was stated that those were all the known weapons in sao in the wiki, and i think it goes like this, if a bipedal monster uses a weapon type then the players can use it as well. Tonfas don't really suite SAO/AlO/GGO style and its not skill, its animation that u would be doing so their for nothing in rl is needed and the even boards nothing new btw- as it was stated somewhere thats where u could find weather info and other stuff.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sat 9 May - 22:08

Sure, attacks aren't skill but the only known defensive sword skill is parry, and that'll only get you so far (especially with post-motion).  The irl skill would be dodging and avoiding strikes, which won't have a sword skill.  And that part about a bi-pedal monster is just something you came up with w/out any proof from the wiki or novels, just like we decided a while ago to include Tonfa as weapons.  I honestly don't see what changed between then and now, which is why I'm arguing so hard.  What's different about before, when you agreed that adding Tonfa would be a good idea, then now, when they suddenly don't fit into the world design.

And tell me that doesn't look like it would fit perfectly in GGO (minus her being an alien)


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sat 9 May - 22:18

well 1: no i didnt come up with instantly, i have been looking at all the info we have on sao, and i had determined that was the reason why the drunken apes that killed pina was using those gourds that was attached to their left hand.( i may be wrong/thinking wrong on that)  
2: way to over oped, and r kinda unfair really if u use them like i think u want to
3: not really- as i think all the swords/blades were either metal or like the photon sword- and were 1 handed- and its not balanced at all.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sat 9 May - 22:29

alright, number 3 is arguable (though I'll skip it for now).  Number 2 is true, mainly because of how much training irl it will take for me to pull it off.  I want to be able to dodge literally 100% of the sword swings coming at me, control my opponent using tactics and strategy completely thought up and perfected irl.  If you were to do the same with any of the other weapons, they would quickly become just as unfair.  Just because you expect me to be good with them doesn't make them unfair, it just makes me kinda crazy for training this hard irl to gain strength in a virtual world XD.  Plus, if you think they're unfair because I have two of them while everyone else can only carry one, I don't think that's quite true.  Is a greatsword unfair because of how easily it can break blocks?  Is a shield unfair because it allows the user to easily block attacks and attack w/ their sword at the same time?  Is a dagger unfair because of the amount of status inducing poisons you can put onto it?  I don't think so, it's just what makes the weapon unique.  Then you'll have the actual dual wielder, who can do everything I can only better because swords have more range than tonfa, so it's not like I'm going to make dual wielding less desirable.  Number 1, umm...you'll have to take a couple steps back, lol.  I have no clue where that came from XD


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sat 9 May - 22:39

1 each of those r normal for an rpg like sao, and each have major negative qualities,  and its way oped and un balanced, so far all the other weapons have bad/good things about them, and more modern day
Tonfa:
1: Allows the user to use 2 of them,- there for negating that only the duel wield skill gives u the use to wield 2 things at once
2: Great agility weapon
3: relatively good defense

Edit
I will get back to number 1 later


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 7:38

but didn't we negate the great defense of the tonfa by making it so that you can't use it to block attacks at all?  that way tonfa users have no choice but to use irl skills to dodge or use the parry sword skill, but then they'd have to deal with post-paralysis.  sure it's a great agility weapon, and that's okay because the way SAO was shown in the novels there is no great agility weapon.  If agility is going to be dps, then all you've really got are rapiers (decent) and daggers (more for stealth/assassinations and status effects, less for open combat dps).  If you were a strength player you have access to two handed swords, axes, or maces. one handed swords, axes, or maces w/ a heavy shield (that's three times more options than agility players).  Hybrid players can use katana; one handed sword, axe, and mace w/ a light shield, one handed sword, axe and mace w/ no shield, scythe, and spear (that's almost five times the options agility players have!).  If you really think the fact that there are two tonfa makes them unfair, well, i've argued that point all the ways I know how so I guess your stuberness wins on this one *sigh*, but I think we should still find more options for agility players in combat.  

Also, do you think you would consider Tonfa (and other weapons like it) less OP if they weren't technically two weapons?  Like if they were connected by a chain or something (kinda like Black Star's kusarigama from Soul Eater, which also wouldn't make a bad agility weapon to add in XD).  That way it's not that you're dual wielding two tonfa, it's that you're using one tonfa that has two striking ends and is connected by a chain (my last argument for keeping tonfa, if you don't think this one works either, or even if you do, I'd like to do some research to find more options for weapons for agility players.  This is especially true if we want them to be the main source of DPS, options to fit different playing styles would really help players to be more effective in that role.)


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 13:20

I see Tonfas being a more age of new beginnings and the lost ages type of game really and im not sure on the connected by the chain.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 14:04

I'll let you think about it (and lost ages, really?  Where will you find such an out-of-the-ordinary weapon in the zombie appocalipse?)  Anyway, do you agree w/ me that we need more agility weapons?  If so, do you want me to start looking for some to add to the game?


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 14:17

well in TLA: police stations for the basic versions of Tonfas, and uh i think atm that the weapons r good enough,


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 14:24

Oh, I'm an idiot, I completely forgot about batons XD.  Also, I think we forgot about another weapon we need to include in SAO, the Estoc.  It looks like it's just a really light one-handed sword, it's the weapon Death Gun uses in GGO and they said that he specialized w/ it in SAO, so I think we should include it


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by HourlongFall on Sun 10 May - 14:27

Nomaru wrote:Oh, I'm an idiot, I completely forgot about batons XD.  Also, I think we forgot about another weapon we need to include in SAO, the Estoc.  It looks like it's just a really light one-handed sword, it's the weapon Death Gun uses in GGO and they said that he specialized w/ it in SAO, so I think we should include it
Oh shit, how could one forget the Estoc. That's a AGI weapon if i ever saw one.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 14:30

well, after a quick google search, it looks like historical estocs were two handed piercing swords.  Though, that's not what death gun's was like at all...  I think we should go with his version, just an extremely light and fast one-handed sword, because that's the way it was presented in the SAO universe.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 14:30

Defintly, it can go under 1 handed long sword


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 14:36

like, it's unlocked through leveling one-handed long swords (like the rapier)?  Or are we just going to include light, slim one-handed swords that have high agility requirements that aren't a separate category of weapon, but are called Estocs?  I think we should go w/ the first one, personally (it makes more sense, as estocs use piercing attacks a lot more than regular swords, even when death gun used them, so I think our sword skills should reflect that)


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by HourlongFall on Sun 10 May - 14:38

It should be under one-handed. Simpler that way.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 14:44

what if to unlock the use of estocs u have to have mastered the rapier and have a set agility lvl


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by HourlongFall on Sun 10 May - 14:45

Mastered? How about 50% completion instead?


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 14:48

ok maybe not master but lets say 70% instead of 50, have an outstanding agility lvl


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 14:52

If we do that, then Estocs should be really OP in terms of dps and raw speed.  That would make them worth all the effort it takes to get one.


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 15:00

true they would be oped, but they do cost a lot also if i remember correctly


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 15:04

I don't think it was ever mentioned.  It would certainly cost a lot of time and effort to level up the weapons (obviously dependent on how long it would take to completely max out a weapon).  I don't think they should be insanely expensive, because that would make it harder to keep your weapon at your own level, but they could be the most expensive of all of the weapons (probably followed by katana, then scythes, then rapiers, and everything else would be approx. the same level).


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 15:06

yeah that sounds good to me


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Nomaru on Sun 10 May - 15:09

so how hard should it be to get an estoc. Well, first you'd have to get the rapier, but Asuna had it on floor one, so we should probably make it 5-10% mastery required in one-handed swords to get that.  Then, maybe, we set the leveling system so players would be expected to get the option of using an estoc around floor 7 or 8?


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Re: ideas for weapons/shields

Post by Akira on Sun 10 May - 15:19

i say floor 8 and yeah 45% mastery of One-handed Straight Sword» skill must be trained quite a bit before «Rapier» and «Two-Handed Sword»


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